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welcome to shattered reality with your

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hosts Kate Valentine and furs prepare to

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have a paradigm shifted into truths

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questioned and now shattered reality hi

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and welcome to another episode of

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shattered reality I'm Kate Valentine

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with me is fur YCJA

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and today is March 1st 2016 and we have

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quite an interesting show on line here

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for you when I was in years ago when I

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was at Wagner College I had a professor

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of philosophy 101 and when this

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gentleman wanted to wake up the class he

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would start talking about someone that

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used to fly up to the top of the ceiling

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in past centuries I think he was

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speaking of Joseph of Cupertino who was

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a friar Franciscan friar in the 17th

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century and today we have another

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professor of philosophy a wonderful

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gentleman who is a teacher and an author

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and a painter and a PhD in philosophy he

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has taught at City University of New

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York Marymount Manhattan College and the

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City University of New Jersey formerly

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known as Jersey City State and today I

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would like you to welcome Michael Grosso

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PhD who lives in Charlottesville

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Virginia and he is affiliated with the

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division of perceptual studies and we

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had on one of his

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I guess you would call them colleagues

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colleagues there

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Ross dunseith in the past who talked

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about psychokinesis

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so welcome Michael do you mind if we

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call you Michael

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hi of course not Michael it is okay

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thank you so much for sharing this hour

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with us my pleasure you know basically

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frisia was telling me about your work

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with levitation to some extent and I was

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wondering I mean I know what it means to

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levitate but what are you referring to

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when you say that is that just voluntary

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involuntary but you know it comes from a

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Latin word labarie to make light of good

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song and it is I will be talking mainly

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about Joseph's weapons that involved was

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an entire body being lifted off the

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ground but there are also limitations of

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objects which you often hear about in

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cases of poltergeists so and so

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levitation could take place in a variety

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of ways long as some object physical

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object is moving in space in a way that

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we cannot explain by any known force any

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known force I think that's the operative

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term but it does occur and so there is

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some force it's just unknown that's

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interesting so you would say Michael

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that there are some parallels between

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the study of say Ross dunseith in

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psychokinesis and your studies about

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levitation absolutely I would maintain

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that the most dramatic forms of

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limitations such as Joseph's levitations

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are merely or I should say especially

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dramatic illustrations of the basic type

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of psychokinesis

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that people like Ross and other

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parapsychologists have been

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investigating for years so that as I

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said in a poltergeist or in a dice

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throwing experiment that JB Ryan

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performed many many years ago he

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demonstrated that an individual just by

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aiming or intending could bias the fall

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of dice in a way that was statistically

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significant there - you have a direct

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mental influence on a physical state of

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affairs and as a matter of fact that we

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want to push this a little further

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scientists don't really understand how

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we are able to move our own bodies so

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for example when I extend my hand to

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shake your hands or when I point to the

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moon with my finger I'm exerting an

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influence on a part of my body that

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properly speaking is a form of

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psychokinesis that is to say mind acting

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upon something physical so that's a

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surprising connection I want to

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emphasize it that it's in one sense

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quite normal and another sense

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dramatically strange and unusual I am

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thinking about the idea of

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intentionality and it's sort of been

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demonstrated and I wish I could pull up

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the chapter inverse here but maybe I

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will if someone asks me afterwards that

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we can affect the world through our

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intention by five or six percent off

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what would happen by absolute chance and

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so that is related to what you're

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talking about

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in terms of the dice throwing but in

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terms of levitation it is my

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understanding that some levitation is

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volitional and some is not been

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volitional would that be true absolutely

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the case and in the case of jokes

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and in the case of the 200 other wreck

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cases of levitation in the annals of the

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Catholic Church almost invariably the

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levitation is involuntary it is like an

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aftereffect and unexpected and sometimes

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frightening and even disturbing after

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effect of being in a state of ecstasy so

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properly speaking about these unusual

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dramatic forms of levitation it's more

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accurate to talk about ecstatic

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levitation meaning it never happens

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unless the agent or the levitator

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is in a very very unusual state of

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consciousness one which we characterize

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as rapture or ecstasy in other words

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being out of your normal self being

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swept away by a powerful idea or emotion

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and so that is very important in some

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rare cases it looks as though the

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levitations that we're talking about can

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be directed but most of the time it's a

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kind of gift that's why they call it a

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charism a force that is involuntary but

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always associated with and as it were

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the acting out of being in a state of

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ecstasy which would be different than

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being in a non-physical state like

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something like an out-of-body state well

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that's an interesting question because

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the word ecstasy literally means ex

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tarsus being standing outside of

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yourself now that could be understood as

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figuratively but it could also be

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understood in in the sense of an

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out-of-body experience and as a matter

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of fact Joseph's ecstasy's were really

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out-of-body States but with him they

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also changed into the physical

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levitation oh you can have an

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out-of-body experience I've had a few

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but I never levitated right right now

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maybe what what I didn't do what I

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should have done at the beginning

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of the podcast maybe you could mention

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your book that were speaking about right

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now and then give us just a thumbnail of

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the story of Joseph of Cupertino

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well the name of the book is the man who

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could fly Saint Joseph of Cupertino and

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the mystery I emphasize mystery of

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levitation in a nutshell this is the

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story and this is the my book is focuses

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on Joseph as a starting point

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I go from him and I make comparative

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studies and then I try to cover the

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whole range of pique but the reason I

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pick on Joseph as a case to write an

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entire book about because all of the

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historical records indicate that his

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levitations were the most

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well-documented and the most

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extraordinary and the most numerous in

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history and there were lots of others

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but his were perhaps the most dramatic

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now Joseph started out as a poor

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virtually abandoned young man and a

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impoverished part of Italy in the early

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17th century he like many shamans was

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sick for five years in his early youth

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and this may have impaired his sense of

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connection to his own body perhaps but

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in order to escape the pain of his

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illness and cope with the loneliness of

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his being you know bedridden he got into

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the only thing he knew about because

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there were no you know television to

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distract him he got into prayer and

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prayer calmed him down and got him in

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tune with what seemed to him to be a

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high reality and gradually when he

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overcame his illness and he started to

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re-enter the world of ordinary life he

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found he was virtually good-for-nothing

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and he used to say that over again over

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and over again I'm good for nothing so

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the next bed

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thing was to become a priest and devote

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himself to the divine and even there he

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had a hard time because he wasn't very

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bookish she didn't have the head for

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reading and writing not that he was

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stupid but he just didn't have that

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skill so it took a while before he made

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it as a priest and finally at the age of

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25 he did succeed in becoming a

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full-fledged priest

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and from that time on he began to evolve

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both as a human being and also as a

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mystic and the psychic and bit by bit

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his ecstatic visionary experiences

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became so frequent that people began to

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notice and then one day it happened that

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he was meditating on a painting of the

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madonna and he got cold so carried away

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with his inner raptures that he's that

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he physically lifted up off the ground

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and that was the beginning of his of his

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career as a levitator and made a long

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story short the moment these things

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dramatic things began to happen his

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whole life changed and I would simply

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say in one sense that changed for the

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worse not for the better because he

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became the subject of observation

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surveillance he became very charismatic

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people wanted to see him to hang out

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with him to touch him to receive gifts

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and knowledge from him and so the church

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had to keep their eye on him because

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there was no telling what he could do he

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could create riots and often people

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broke the windows of churches I mean

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later on in his career just to get a

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glimpse of him things were got so

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crowded wherever he went people followed

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him so that's the story of the beginning

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of his life and

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and as a as a an increasingly famous

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mystic and holy man because he was very

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obedient and pious son of the Catholic

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Church if he wasn't he would have gotten

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into serious trouble very quickly and

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his life would have been even more

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miserable than it was in some ways he he

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was he was taken in by the Inquisition

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at some point he was questioned by the

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Inquisition absolutely after several

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years living in his hometown actually

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after 16 years living in his hometown of

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core Pertino he became so famous so

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sought-after

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that somebody asked him if he would like

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to go on a one-year to tour to all the

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churches and convents and convent he

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knows in a certain part of southern

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Italy and he reluctantly he went along

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and along the way he did so many

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extraordinary things that his faman

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increased even more and reluctantly he

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did these things couldn't help but he

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get carried away so by the time he came

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back a rumors started to spread nasty

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rumors that this there was this guy

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walking around travelling around Italy

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carrying on like a messiah doing

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performing miracles and he suddenly

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became a very suspect character and as a

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result somebody reported him to the

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Inquisition and so he had to grab his

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buddy

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Ludovico and walk of course there were

274
00:15:14,579 --> 00:15:10,899
no trains or anything walked all the way

275
00:15:19,860 --> 00:15:14,589
to Naples and presented himself to the

276
00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:19,870
Inquisition and they tell you what they

277
00:15:25,259 --> 00:15:22,000
did in in a nutshell what they wanted to

278
00:15:28,350 --> 00:15:25,269
know was not they didn't question his

279
00:15:30,889 --> 00:15:28,360
miracles or his phenomena they wanted to

280
00:15:33,990 --> 00:15:30,899
be sure he had the right attitude you

281
00:15:35,580 --> 00:15:34,000
see if he sounded as though he was too

282
00:15:37,830 --> 00:15:35,590
arrogant too proud

283
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:37,840
about the things he was doing he

284
00:15:45,210 --> 00:15:41,610
automatically would become suspect and

285
00:15:48,180 --> 00:15:45,220
on the contrary he passed in flying

286
00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:48,190
colors and eventually the church decided

287
00:15:55,079 --> 00:15:52,290
that this guy was somewhat vaguely

288
00:15:58,160 --> 00:15:55,089
inarticulate but intentionally pious

289
00:16:01,200 --> 00:15:58,170
fellow with a genius for performing

290
00:16:04,620 --> 00:16:01,210
impossible things and so-called miracles

291
00:16:05,630 --> 00:16:04,630
and however the church for the rest of

292
00:16:10,950 --> 00:16:05,640
his life

293
00:16:14,220 --> 00:16:10,960
kept their eye on him and they moved him

294
00:16:17,579 --> 00:16:14,230
from convent to conduct when he got too

295
00:16:19,950 --> 00:16:17,589
popular in one place they suddenly come

296
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:19,960
in the middle of the night like gestapo

297
00:16:24,630 --> 00:16:22,570
and drag him away over and over again he

298
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:24,640
would you'd hear the story that he'd

299
00:16:30,780 --> 00:16:28,810
leave behind his glasses his cape his

300
00:16:33,510 --> 00:16:30,790
little possessions which were virtually

301
00:16:37,980 --> 00:16:33,520
non-existent and off he'd go to another

302
00:16:40,620 --> 00:16:37,990
town and he did that for the entire 35

303
00:16:43,710 --> 00:16:40,630
years of his career until they finally

304
00:16:46,850 --> 00:16:43,720
dropped him off at a very obscure place

305
00:16:50,310 --> 00:16:46,860
called ASIMO on the edge of the adriatic

306
00:16:52,430 --> 00:16:50,320
which where he spent the last six years

307
00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:52,440
of his life virtually under house arrest

308
00:16:59,910 --> 00:16:56,650
but that was good news for him it was a

309
00:17:02,790 --> 00:16:59,920
dark little hole of a place that that

310
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:02,800
kept him in but he called it his forest

311
00:17:07,890 --> 00:17:05,290
paradise and the reason he called it as

312
00:17:10,470 --> 00:17:07,900
far as paradise because people left him

313
00:17:13,410 --> 00:17:10,480
alone there nevertheless they caught him

314
00:17:17,010 --> 00:17:13,420
the crowds the people the miracle hungry

315
00:17:20,370 --> 00:17:17,020
and big shots in the church the king of

316
00:17:22,410 --> 00:17:20,380
Poland distinguished people knew about

317
00:17:25,980 --> 00:17:22,420
him and they came from all over Europe

318
00:17:28,350 --> 00:17:25,990
and begged and begged permission to hang

319
00:17:31,260 --> 00:17:28,360
out with him to see him to come into his

320
00:17:33,660 --> 00:17:31,270
cell and many a time they did and

321
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:33,670
sometimes he would they would say

322
00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:35,530
something like it isn't this guy

323
00:17:39,180 --> 00:17:37,090
beautiful all you could never see it

324
00:17:41,130 --> 00:17:39,190
from his cell and he'd get so carried

325
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:41,140
away he'd levitate right in his cell and

326
00:17:45,780 --> 00:17:43,810
go up to the top of the ceiling so

327
00:17:48,930 --> 00:17:45,790
that's the story of his life and it went

328
00:17:51,810 --> 00:17:48,940
on till the very day of his of his death

329
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:51,820
on that last day of Joseph's death he

330
00:17:57,990 --> 00:17:55,210
actually levitated and it's a very

331
00:18:00,450 --> 00:17:58,000
strange almost incredible story and it

332
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:00,460
would be incredible if it weren't for

333
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:03,210
the fact that the church has this

334
00:18:10,770 --> 00:18:06,090
legalistic habit which they inherit from

335
00:18:15,660 --> 00:18:10,780
Roman law to make to keep records of

336
00:18:19,710 --> 00:18:15,670
everything and so that and to get people

337
00:18:21,660 --> 00:18:19,720
to swear under oath whether they did or

338
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:21,670
did not see him do such and such a thing

339
00:18:28,050 --> 00:18:25,450
so the result is we have although the

340
00:18:31,650 --> 00:18:28,060
poor man suffered throughout his life by

341
00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:31,660
all this surveillance and this virtual

342
00:18:38,010 --> 00:18:34,710
imprisonment we have a very detailed

343
00:18:40,140 --> 00:18:38,020
record of his entire life all the things

344
00:18:42,650 --> 00:18:40,150
that he did and that's what makes him

345
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:42,660
interesting for a contemporary

346
00:18:47,700 --> 00:18:45,450
philosopher and scientists like myself

347
00:18:52,260 --> 00:18:47,710
trying to understand these strange

348
00:18:57,960 --> 00:18:52,270
phenomena and the people who swore under

349
00:19:02,880 --> 00:18:57,970
oath ostensibly they would fear for

350
00:19:05,820 --> 00:19:02,890
their souls if they lied would that be a

351
00:19:09,090 --> 00:19:05,830
correct assumption absolutely absolutely

352
00:19:11,070 --> 00:19:09,100
and it was a serious thing you didn't

353
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:11,080
just get up there and make make make up

354
00:19:15,900 --> 00:19:13,570
stories to please yourself what to

355
00:19:20,610 --> 00:19:15,910
please the Inquisition you told the

356
00:19:25,020 --> 00:19:20,620
truth I'm very very interested in the

357
00:19:28,860 --> 00:19:25,030
whole idea of his levitations

358
00:19:32,910 --> 00:19:28,870
being non volitional and how that

359
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:32,920
differs from an intentional levitation

360
00:19:40,830 --> 00:19:37,570
such as is credited to Daniel Douglas

361
00:19:43,850 --> 00:19:40,840
Hume if I got that right from the 19th

362
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:43,860
century the mystic that Scottish

363
00:19:51,860 --> 00:19:47,290
gentleman that's an interesting question

364
00:19:55,890 --> 00:19:51,870
I don't know or I'm not sure that the

365
00:19:59,910 --> 00:19:55,900
the levitations of whom were home

366
00:20:02,220 --> 00:19:59,920
however he's pronounced were just to

367
00:20:02,820 --> 00:20:02,230
what degree they were voluntary but it

368
00:20:05,940 --> 00:20:02,830
doesn't

369
00:20:10,649 --> 00:20:05,950
from what I have read that he seemed a

370
00:20:12,750 --> 00:20:10,659
little more able to control these

371
00:20:17,090 --> 00:20:12,760
phenomena you know there were a lot of

372
00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:17,100
things that that we human beings do that

373
00:20:25,590 --> 00:20:21,600
there are a borderline in terms of being

374
00:20:28,230 --> 00:20:25,600
intentional and unintentional when we're

375
00:20:31,380 --> 00:20:28,240
inspired for example by a new idea

376
00:20:33,570 --> 00:20:31,390
that's a poet or a painter it often just

377
00:20:36,210 --> 00:20:33,580
comes to us but then as we're doing it

378
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:36,220
we see what we're doing it and then we

379
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:39,010
intervene and we add this and we add

380
00:20:44,759 --> 00:20:41,610
that so that it's not all together

381
00:20:49,190 --> 00:20:44,769
either/or but I will say that in the

382
00:20:53,009 --> 00:20:49,200
case of Joseph as best I know his

383
00:20:55,470 --> 00:20:53,019
levitations were almost invariably like

384
00:20:58,169 --> 00:20:55,480
a byproduct he was never intending

385
00:21:01,169 --> 00:20:58,179
consciously for them to happen what he

386
00:21:04,649 --> 00:21:01,179
was intending consciously to happen was

387
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:04,659
to unite his soul with the divine and

388
00:21:10,259 --> 00:21:07,210
whatever she performed manifested to his

389
00:21:14,700 --> 00:21:10,269
mind to his imagination or to the scene

390
00:21:17,370 --> 00:21:14,710
around him and then he would get into

391
00:21:19,950 --> 00:21:17,380
this profound state wonderful state

392
00:21:24,180 --> 00:21:19,960
which he admitted was wonderful and then

393
00:21:28,590 --> 00:21:24,190
somehow emptying himself of everything

394
00:21:32,220 --> 00:21:28,600
but this one call it divine focus in

395
00:21:33,659 --> 00:21:32,230
that state of force was able to exert

396
00:21:36,180 --> 00:21:33,669
itself and there's where the great

397
00:21:37,740 --> 00:21:36,190
mystery is because we don't know how

398
00:21:41,330 --> 00:21:37,750
that how that works

399
00:21:45,539 --> 00:21:41,340
although I do speculate in my chapter on

400
00:21:47,970 --> 00:21:45,549
the physics of levitation some possible

401
00:21:50,430 --> 00:21:47,980
explanations but we are infinitely

402
00:21:52,259 --> 00:21:50,440
remote from any really correct

403
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:52,269
understanding of that and that's what I

404
00:22:01,769 --> 00:21:55,690
call it a mystery it does seem to me

405
00:22:04,230 --> 00:22:01,779
somehow that um if we look at sort of

406
00:22:10,830 --> 00:22:04,240
the cosmology of the whole situation

407
00:22:13,740 --> 00:22:10,840
that I can really see like a universal

408
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:13,750
consciousness which some people might

409
00:22:19,260 --> 00:22:16,090
call God

410
00:22:23,460 --> 00:22:19,270
then there seems to be something else

411
00:22:28,820 --> 00:22:23,470
some intermediary forces that are

412
00:22:34,490 --> 00:22:28,830
sometimes seen as apparitions or UFOs or

413
00:22:38,039 --> 00:22:34,500
angels or demons or others that are not

414
00:22:40,549 --> 00:22:38,049
physically visible to us in the spectrum

415
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:40,559
in the in the you know the very big

416
00:22:46,380 --> 00:22:43,330
electromagnetic spectrum of which our

417
00:22:50,100 --> 00:22:46,390
visible light energy is only a small

418
00:22:54,269 --> 00:22:50,110
portion and somehow they sometimes exert

419
00:22:58,860 --> 00:22:54,279
influence on the earth humanity and

420
00:23:02,399 --> 00:22:58,870
animals absolutely I think you describe

421
00:23:05,519 --> 00:23:02,409
that perfectly I think that I myself

422
00:23:08,430 --> 00:23:05,529
have come to believe that our personal

423
00:23:11,190 --> 00:23:08,440
consciousness is part of a cosmic

424
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:11,200
consciousness our consciousness is

425
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:16,330
pretty much one thing and your and the

426
00:23:21,330 --> 00:23:18,610
manifestations well just look at your

427
00:23:23,130 --> 00:23:21,340
own consciousness I am conscious of a

428
00:23:26,190 --> 00:23:23,140
screen in front of me right now so

429
00:23:29,010 --> 00:23:26,200
that's cognitive but I can also move the

430
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:29,020
screen away from me a little bit I can

431
00:23:34,830 --> 00:23:31,090
exert an influence through my conscious

432
00:23:39,769 --> 00:23:34,840
intentionality on my body to adjust the

433
00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:39,779
place of this screen so it appears that

434
00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:43,510
even our own little piece of the big

435
00:23:48,630 --> 00:23:45,520
divine consciousness if you want to call

436
00:23:52,289 --> 00:23:48,640
it that I can do all kinds of things it

437
00:23:54,930 --> 00:23:52,299
can calculate it can reason it can feel

438
00:23:58,500 --> 00:23:54,940
it can sometimes move things physically

439
00:24:00,720 --> 00:23:58,510
right under the intentional part so long

440
00:24:02,580 --> 00:24:00,730
as it has a body if it doesn't have a

441
00:24:06,419 --> 00:24:02,590
body then it's slightly more mysterious

442
00:24:09,330 --> 00:24:06,429
of how the direct action with me this

443
00:24:14,340 --> 00:24:09,340
this pure consciousness may as you say

444
00:24:17,130 --> 00:24:14,350
assume the form of a of a ghost which

445
00:24:19,350 --> 00:24:17,140
has a localized consciousness or it may

446
00:24:22,950 --> 00:24:19,360
assume the form of the madonna and peer

447
00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:22,960
to millions of people as it did as it

448
00:24:26,639 --> 00:24:24,370
has in various parts of the world

449
00:24:29,850 --> 00:24:26,649
especially in the last hundred or so

450
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:29,860
years so I think that's a perfectly

451
00:24:37,799 --> 00:24:34,570
plausible model that there is a a form

452
00:24:41,250 --> 00:24:37,809
of consciousness that pervades the

453
00:24:43,470 --> 00:24:41,260
entire physical universe but it seems to

454
00:24:46,860 --> 00:24:43,480
manifest itself only through living

455
00:24:48,659 --> 00:24:46,870
forms such as ourselves we don't know

456
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:48,669
what other kinds of living creatures are

457
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:54,010
out there and it also seems to express

458
00:24:59,909 --> 00:24:57,610
itself then non-physical shapes and

459
00:25:02,940 --> 00:24:59,919
forms that appear in dreams

460
00:25:06,629 --> 00:25:02,950
that appear in the visions of abstains

461
00:25:09,029 --> 00:25:06,639
and Yogi's and mystics but it seems to

462
00:25:11,430 --> 00:25:09,039
me it's a perfectly coherent way of

463
00:25:13,590 --> 00:25:11,440
looking at the world if you're willing

464
00:25:15,870 --> 00:25:13,600
to look at all the unusual phenomena

465
00:25:18,570 --> 00:25:15,880
that point in that direction which is

466
00:25:21,899 --> 00:25:18,580
what we're doing right now right what

467
00:25:25,620 --> 00:25:21,909
will some of your theories on that as

468
00:25:27,810 --> 00:25:25,630
far as what the causative agent was well

469
00:25:30,870 --> 00:25:27,820
I'm not sure what you're asking now what

470
00:25:36,419 --> 00:25:30,880
well you said that you had some theories

471
00:25:39,019 --> 00:25:36,429
as to physics yeah well okay

472
00:25:44,039 --> 00:25:39,029
I'll give you one that I can explain

473
00:25:47,850 --> 00:25:44,049
easily actually one of the physicists

474
00:25:50,730 --> 00:25:47,860
that I derived this idea from was open

475
00:25:53,850 --> 00:25:50,740
to it as a possibility and it's this and

476
00:25:57,570 --> 00:25:53,860
a bit weird but I'll express it

477
00:26:01,470 --> 00:25:57,580
concisely as I can when you remember or

478
00:26:04,049 --> 00:26:01,480
imagine Joseph or anybody for that

479
00:26:06,810 --> 00:26:04,059
matter but let's say Joseph levitating

480
00:26:09,210 --> 00:26:06,820
he's gets carried away during mass let's

481
00:26:12,110 --> 00:26:09,220
say and you levitate and he floats up in

482
00:26:16,649 --> 00:26:12,120
front of a in front of an altar and

483
00:26:20,269 --> 00:26:16,659
there are candles burning the candles

484
00:26:22,919 --> 00:26:20,279
don't catch fire so he's immune to fire

485
00:26:26,129 --> 00:26:22,929
people want to try to wake him up so

486
00:26:30,419 --> 00:26:26,139
they start jamming they stick little

487
00:26:33,539 --> 00:26:30,429
knives in his side he doesn't feel it

488
00:26:36,149 --> 00:26:33,549
he's so while he's in this space while

489
00:26:39,269 --> 00:26:36,159
he's in this levitating we call it a

490
00:26:42,570 --> 00:26:39,279
levitated bubble of space okay he defies

491
00:26:43,770 --> 00:26:42,580
the law of gravity he's impervious to

492
00:26:45,630 --> 00:26:43,780
fire

493
00:26:47,100 --> 00:26:45,640
he's impervious to pain there are all

494
00:26:49,410 --> 00:26:47,110
these different properties that he

495
00:26:52,620 --> 00:26:49,420
admires in this new space now here's my

496
00:26:55,050 --> 00:26:52,630
question what space do we already know

497
00:27:00,330 --> 00:26:55,060
about where these things actually take

498
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:00,340
place answer dreams in a dream I can fly

499
00:27:04,980 --> 00:27:03,250
in a dream the fire doesn't hurt me in a

500
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:04,990
dream you can smack me in the face and

501
00:27:08,700 --> 00:27:06,730
I'll might laugh back at you and you and

502
00:27:12,630 --> 00:27:08,710
you won't I won't feel it there's no

503
00:27:15,450 --> 00:27:12,640
pain now what I think is happening is

504
00:27:17,730 --> 00:27:15,460
this and this is a theory there's a

505
00:27:22,140 --> 00:27:17,740
sinkhole we'll call it dream space and

506
00:27:24,630 --> 00:27:22,150
this waking space normally we entered

507
00:27:25,050 --> 00:27:24,640
dream space when we're asleep and

508
00:27:27,690 --> 00:27:25,060
dreaming

509
00:27:30,540 --> 00:27:27,700
it's cyclic and then we wake up and we

510
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:30,550
wake up in waking space and we can no

511
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:32,170
longer levitate and do all these crazy

512
00:27:40,140 --> 00:27:36,850
things now it is possible that under

513
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:40,150
certain special circumstances those two

514
00:27:47,730 --> 00:27:43,210
spaces the dream space and the waking

515
00:27:50,250 --> 00:27:47,740
space become compacted physicists talked

516
00:27:53,340 --> 00:27:50,260
about this being a real possibility in

517
00:27:56,490 --> 00:27:53,350
black holes where two forms that space

518
00:27:59,010 --> 00:27:56,500
can come together and all the end none

519
00:28:02,190 --> 00:27:59,020
of the information is lost but fused

520
00:28:07,020 --> 00:28:02,200
into one space now my suggestion is that

521
00:28:08,750 --> 00:28:07,030
somehow a mystic or a yogi who gets into

522
00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:08,760
an altered state of consciousness

523
00:28:16,980 --> 00:28:11,370
empties his mind of the normal

524
00:28:19,650 --> 00:28:16,990
functioning sense of space and makes it

525
00:28:22,290 --> 00:28:19,660
possible and here's where again I don't

526
00:28:26,060 --> 00:28:22,300
know how it happens but the two spaces

527
00:28:28,890 --> 00:28:26,070
are compacted and so for a while

528
00:28:32,970 --> 00:28:28,900
Joseph is up there floating around in

529
00:28:35,370 --> 00:28:32,980
his own dream and immune to pain and he

530
00:28:40,050 --> 00:28:35,380
can't connect in here anybody can't be

531
00:28:43,380 --> 00:28:40,060
pinched into awakeness and why is that

532
00:28:46,170 --> 00:28:43,390
because somehow he is from our point of

533
00:28:48,090 --> 00:28:46,180
view in waking space but from his point

534
00:28:50,940 --> 00:28:48,100
of view he's in a dream space the two

535
00:28:54,150 --> 00:28:50,950
states have locked together now this

536
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:54,160
idea was the two physicists that I spoke

537
00:29:02,279 --> 00:28:57,130
to struck me as being though Fantana

538
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:02,289
at least logically plausible I'm sorry

539
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:04,450
sorry that's the beginning of one of my

540
00:29:13,650 --> 00:29:09,850
of one of my series oh how about would

541
00:29:16,470 --> 00:29:13,660
we say he might be in a state akin to

542
00:29:19,169 --> 00:29:16,480
the hypnotic state especially since a

543
00:29:25,110 --> 00:29:19,179
person who might be under a state of

544
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:25,120
hypnosis can be pinched or poked or they

545
00:29:30,740 --> 00:29:28,210
can make the person who's hypnotized

546
00:29:34,409 --> 00:29:30,750
them can make their body cold or warm

547
00:29:38,669 --> 00:29:34,419
absolutely absolutely in other words all

548
00:29:42,180 --> 00:29:38,679
states of consciousness do have this in

549
00:29:44,100 --> 00:29:42,190
different ways unique ability to change

550
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:44,110
the quality of our experience so

551
00:29:48,779 --> 00:29:46,330
something like that is very very tricky

552
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:48,789
and that's why I want to argue that what

553
00:29:53,570 --> 00:29:51,130
we call levitation is so far out in

554
00:29:56,070 --> 00:29:53,580
bizarre it seems that way on the surface

555
00:29:59,600 --> 00:29:56,080
when you look more closely at other

556
00:30:02,070 --> 00:29:59,610
kinds of experiences it may be more

557
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:02,080
pervasive in our experience than we

558
00:30:05,669 --> 00:30:03,490
suspect but you're absolutely right

559
00:30:08,039 --> 00:30:05,679
about the hypnosis and also you might

560
00:30:09,930 --> 00:30:08,049
have mentioned lucid dreaming yes the

561
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:09,940
lucid dream is a little bit like the

562
00:30:14,610 --> 00:30:12,730
waking space but you're in a dream so

563
00:30:16,500 --> 00:30:14,620
you can control the dream and control

564
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:16,510
the space and you can start pulling

565
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:19,450
around and doing strange things such as

566
00:30:26,250 --> 00:30:22,690
levitate and fly and fall and not be

567
00:30:28,649 --> 00:30:26,260
injured so yes these are real

568
00:30:31,230 --> 00:30:28,659
possibilities and I'm completely

569
00:30:35,130 --> 00:30:31,240
fascinated by the possibility of

570
00:30:37,710 --> 00:30:35,140
learning how to do this consciously and

571
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:37,720
deliberately and to learn how to get

572
00:30:42,870 --> 00:30:39,850
into these spaces while we're fully

573
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:42,880
awake who knows what we would learn what

574
00:30:47,460 --> 00:30:44,770
possibilities of healing and

575
00:30:51,450 --> 00:30:47,470
enlightenment could come about if we

576
00:30:54,890 --> 00:30:51,460
could begin to combine the various

577
00:30:56,909 --> 00:30:54,900
spaces that we actually do inhabit Wow

578
00:30:59,610 --> 00:30:56,919
that's actually a very fascinating

579
00:31:01,890 --> 00:30:59,620
thought I appreciate the theory that's

580
00:31:03,690 --> 00:31:01,900
excellent it's a good starting point to

581
00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:03,700
start thinking about things if nothing

582
00:31:09,090 --> 00:31:06,880
else but yeah I just want to get people

583
00:31:10,980 --> 00:31:09,100
to think about it yeah talk about it

584
00:31:15,990 --> 00:31:10,990
well of course there's always a danger

585
00:31:21,510 --> 00:31:16,000
living in a nightmare too I mean yes but

586
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:21,520
you know it's all I don't know there

587
00:31:30,060 --> 00:31:26,530
were so many different how would you say

588
00:31:33,930 --> 00:31:30,070
almost pedestrian philosophies thrown

589
00:31:36,299 --> 00:31:33,940
around like mind over matter and you

590
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:36,309
know if you will it it'll happen and so

591
00:31:41,610 --> 00:31:39,130
on but yet I think most of those things

592
00:31:43,620 --> 00:31:41,620
become popular and are seriously

593
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:43,630
considered by many people just because

594
00:31:49,230 --> 00:31:47,410
there is a German truth in it yeah I

595
00:31:53,250 --> 00:31:49,240
agree with you it would be a great thing

596
00:31:57,890 --> 00:31:53,260
to be able to control them I wonder how

597
00:32:02,460 --> 00:31:57,900
much it has to do with being selfless

598
00:32:04,049 --> 00:32:02,470
and I guess what I would like to I think

599
00:32:05,790 --> 00:32:04,059
we should you should mention the name of

600
00:32:08,180 --> 00:32:05,800
your book again that's the first thing

601
00:32:10,890 --> 00:32:08,190
that's that's one thing because people

602
00:32:17,910 --> 00:32:10,900
have to read it so that's right we want

603
00:32:19,620 --> 00:32:17,920
them to read your remember and if anyone

604
00:32:23,820 --> 00:32:19,630
wants to get the book you can get it on

605
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:23,830
Amazon or and any anybody wants to talk

606
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:29,250
to me more about this they could try my

607
00:32:39,410 --> 00:32:32,770
website which is consciousness

608
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:39,420
- unbound net consciousness - unbound

609
00:32:44,130 --> 00:32:41,610
dotnet and I'd love to hear from you

610
00:32:46,890 --> 00:32:44,140
well if you let's say you had your

611
00:32:49,860 --> 00:32:46,900
druthers and you suddenly could control

612
00:32:52,890 --> 00:32:49,870
this and you for some reason really

613
00:32:54,780 --> 00:32:52,900
understood it where would you and where

614
00:32:56,669 --> 00:32:54,790
would you see it taking you I know as

615
00:32:59,250 --> 00:32:56,679
you said it would certainly unleash a

616
00:33:01,290 --> 00:32:59,260
lot of powerful thoughts and abilities

617
00:33:04,350 --> 00:33:01,300
both are you personally where would it

618
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:04,360
take you I don't know I had a very

619
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:08,290
unusual experience not long ago when I

620
00:33:16,590 --> 00:33:13,690
I'd like to practice staying in the

621
00:33:19,010 --> 00:33:16,600
state of mind between being awake and

622
00:33:21,510 --> 00:33:19,020
falling asleep it's called hypnagogia

623
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:21,520
you know you probably come across that

624
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:24,610
term yes and that's sort of an exam

625
00:33:31,020 --> 00:33:26,890
the kind of movement into the lucid

626
00:33:34,020 --> 00:33:31,030
dream and one night this happened only

627
00:33:36,690 --> 00:33:34,030
once I was extraordinarily successful I

628
00:33:40,590 --> 00:33:36,700
got into a state where I was neither

629
00:33:44,299 --> 00:33:40,600
awake nor dreaming and I was meditating

630
00:33:49,549 --> 00:33:44,309
on my body and what happened was

631
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:49,559
completely surprising that as I mentally

632
00:33:55,169 --> 00:33:52,570
wandered over the various parts of my

633
00:33:58,560 --> 00:33:55,179
body for my tippy tip toes all the way

634
00:34:02,610 --> 00:33:58,570
up to the top of my head I noticed that

635
00:34:07,890 --> 00:34:02,620
as my mind focused while in this unusual

636
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:07,900
state on various parts of my body sparks

637
00:34:15,540 --> 00:34:12,850
and colors would shoot out and at an

638
00:34:17,220 --> 00:34:15,550
amazing the Lessman velocity and they

639
00:34:20,849 --> 00:34:17,230
would shoot me to another part of the

640
00:34:22,590 --> 00:34:20,859
body back and forth and it was under it

641
00:34:25,260 --> 00:34:22,600
was it went on and I and then I started

642
00:34:27,119 --> 00:34:25,270
to slip out of my body and it seemed I

643
00:34:30,450 --> 00:34:27,129
was in a neighborhood where everything

644
00:34:33,930 --> 00:34:30,460
was sparkling and everything was like

645
00:34:37,470 --> 00:34:33,940
photons dancing around at extraordinary

646
00:34:39,750 --> 00:34:37,480
rapidity but as long as I kept focusing

647
00:34:42,180 --> 00:34:39,760
my mind on different parts of my body

648
00:34:45,210 --> 00:34:42,190
the scenery kept changing it was

649
00:34:47,490 --> 00:34:45,220
fascinating it was beautiful I didn't

650
00:34:49,770 --> 00:34:47,500
know how it was happening I certainly

651
00:34:53,669 --> 00:34:49,780
wasn't afraid but it was almost

652
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:53,679
unbearable because I could keep up and I

653
00:35:00,480 --> 00:34:56,050
it's in and I was definitely not gonna

654
00:35:02,700 --> 00:35:00,490
fall asleep in such a state of mind so I

655
00:35:06,300 --> 00:35:02,710
don't know why actually actually what I

656
00:35:08,910 --> 00:35:06,310
experienced but I would like to go back

657
00:35:12,950 --> 00:35:08,920
to that space again and explore it in

658
00:35:16,590 --> 00:35:12,960
greater detail possibly have some my

659
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:16,600
colleague Ross attached some material

660
00:35:20,910 --> 00:35:18,130
you know machines to my head to see

661
00:35:24,060 --> 00:35:20,920
what's happening to my brain but I

662
00:35:26,970 --> 00:35:24,070
really don't know there are so many

663
00:35:29,490 --> 00:35:26,980
possibilities but one of them would be I

664
00:35:32,010 --> 00:35:29,500
think it's possible if there is another

665
00:35:34,530 --> 00:35:32,020
world a life after death and there are a

666
00:35:37,710 --> 00:35:34,540
lot of good reasons that point in that

667
00:35:38,070 --> 00:35:37,720
direction I think we might eventually be

668
00:35:42,390 --> 00:35:38,080
able

669
00:35:46,620 --> 00:35:42,400
learn how to visit that other world by

670
00:35:50,100 --> 00:35:46,630
will in the using methods that I'm that

671
00:35:55,250 --> 00:35:50,110
I'm describing right now well Robert

672
00:35:59,580 --> 00:35:55,260
Monroe claims to have visited with his

673
00:36:03,780 --> 00:35:59,590
late wife shortly after her passing

674
00:36:07,260 --> 00:36:03,790
I believe using I would say reasonably

675
00:36:11,430 --> 00:36:07,270
similar methods using the the Hema sink

676
00:36:13,830 --> 00:36:11,440
tones and slipping into an altered state

677
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:13,840
of consciousness so I guess it's

678
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:20,410
possible to to do so i I know that you

679
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:22,570
have written several other books some of

680
00:36:27,870 --> 00:36:25,810
which concerned the afterlife and so

681
00:36:30,450 --> 00:36:27,880
perhaps you would like to mention those

682
00:36:32,450 --> 00:36:30,460
now as well well I'll be happy to

683
00:36:36,870 --> 00:36:32,460
mention I wrote a book called

684
00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:36,880
experiencing the next world now and that

685
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:39,250
I think you can get on Amazon or

686
00:36:44,310 --> 00:36:42,130
whatever but the idea that well first of

687
00:36:47,100 --> 00:36:44,320
all what it does it covers the whole

688
00:36:48,930 --> 00:36:47,110
range of different types of survival

689
00:36:53,270 --> 00:36:48,940
evidence not just the near-death

690
00:36:55,380 --> 00:36:53,280
experience but reincarnation memories

691
00:36:58,530 --> 00:36:55,390
apparitions of the Dead all kinds of

692
00:37:04,490 --> 00:36:58,540
things but at the point of my book was

693
00:37:07,950 --> 00:37:04,500
to ask this question these glimpses

694
00:37:11,910 --> 00:37:07,960
another world seemed to happen under a

695
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:11,920
variety of circumstances is it possible

696
00:37:19,610 --> 00:37:16,290
I said in the book to try to understand

697
00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:19,620
how we can Phyllis facilitate an

698
00:37:27,060 --> 00:37:24,640
exploration of the of this next world

699
00:37:29,850 --> 00:37:27,070
this other world whatever it is it's not

700
00:37:33,690 --> 00:37:29,860
far it's in us it's not like we have to

701
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:33,700
get on our own you know a jet plane or a

702
00:37:39,570 --> 00:37:35,530
rocket ship and keep traveling through

703
00:37:41,190 --> 00:37:39,580
space it's within us and it's just as

704
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:41,200
the world over the borderline of our

705
00:37:47,810 --> 00:37:45,850
waking waking self so that in a dream I

706
00:37:52,109 --> 00:37:47,820
mean I've had a couple of dreams where I

707
00:37:54,749 --> 00:37:52,119
definitely felt I had contact with a

708
00:37:57,170 --> 00:37:54,759
person who was deceased in one case it

709
00:38:02,420 --> 00:37:57,180
was quite frightening

710
00:38:05,429 --> 00:38:02,430
so I believe that not that by

711
00:38:08,569 --> 00:38:05,439
self-knowledge and by the study of

712
00:38:12,449 --> 00:38:08,579
consciousness and the use of perhaps

713
00:38:14,309 --> 00:38:12,459
psychoactive agents the the sound

714
00:38:19,259 --> 00:38:14,319
technologies that you mentioned a moment

715
00:38:22,049 --> 00:38:19,269
ago learning how to prolong lucid dreams

716
00:38:25,650 --> 00:38:22,059
learning how to prolong hypnagogic

717
00:38:29,729 --> 00:38:25,660
States using artworks to trigger the

718
00:38:32,579 --> 00:38:29,739
imagination fasting by weakening our

719
00:38:35,999 --> 00:38:32,589
bodies we gain greater access to our

720
00:38:39,179 --> 00:38:36,009
mental life there's a reason why you

721
00:38:42,749 --> 00:38:39,189
know Yogi's and shamans and then people

722
00:38:45,630 --> 00:38:42,759
like that's fast periodically there are

723
00:38:50,910 --> 00:38:45,640
all kinds of techniques available to

724
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:50,920
explore the inner world and so I feel

725
00:38:55,289 --> 00:38:52,930
this this is the final frontier the

726
00:38:57,269 --> 00:38:55,299
universe is unbelievably vast and

727
00:39:01,620 --> 00:38:57,279
mysterious out there but so far as I can

728
00:39:04,169 --> 00:39:01,630
make out it's mostly empty space but the

729
00:39:07,669 --> 00:39:04,179
universe of each human mind is

730
00:39:10,249 --> 00:39:07,679
infinitely rich and infinitely full of

731
00:39:12,150 --> 00:39:10,259
things that are interesting and

732
00:39:15,359 --> 00:39:12,160
important to our lives

733
00:39:17,519 --> 00:39:15,369
I heard the latest now about you know

734
00:39:22,589 --> 00:39:17,529
lays proof of Einstein's theory of

735
00:39:25,109 --> 00:39:22,599
relativity about these gravity gravity

736
00:39:28,890 --> 00:39:25,119
waves well their effect is so

737
00:39:30,749 --> 00:39:28,900
infinitesimally minut no doubt

738
00:39:33,569 --> 00:39:30,759
scientists will discover important

739
00:39:37,859 --> 00:39:33,579
things about through them I'm not anti

740
00:39:39,390 --> 00:39:37,869
science far from it but to explore outer

741
00:39:41,489 --> 00:39:39,400
space where it takes billions and

742
00:39:43,439 --> 00:39:41,499
billions and billions of dollars is one

743
00:39:45,299 --> 00:39:43,449
thing and where the results in the

744
00:39:48,870 --> 00:39:45,309
benefits of the human race at large in

745
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:48,880
my opinion are so far virtually nothing

746
00:39:57,059 --> 00:39:52,650
I say use our money use our technology

747
00:40:00,959 --> 00:39:57,069
use our imaginations to really explore

748
00:40:04,289 --> 00:40:00,969
the mysterious ultimate frontier of our

749
00:40:05,730 --> 00:40:04,299
own minds anyway that's my view and I

750
00:40:07,590 --> 00:40:05,740
think that there are many many

751
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:07,600
many things that we can do and many

752
00:40:14,250 --> 00:40:09,490
things that we could do to improve our a

753
00:40:16,980 --> 00:40:14,260
lot as human beings if we follow this

754
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:16,990
path of exploration well the interesting

755
00:40:21,510 --> 00:40:19,090
thing about what you said although I

756
00:40:25,290 --> 00:40:21,520
disagree with a little bit of it I do

757
00:40:28,109 --> 00:40:25,300
think that the inner space is accessible

758
00:40:30,330 --> 00:40:28,119
to most people like the large majority

759
00:40:33,710 --> 00:40:30,340
of people maybe everybody if they really

760
00:40:38,130 --> 00:40:33,720
put an effort to towards it well whereas

761
00:40:40,290 --> 00:40:38,140
outer space is not readily accessible to

762
00:40:43,590 --> 00:40:40,300
the average person except perhaps

763
00:40:47,250 --> 00:40:43,600
through remote viewing where I disagree

764
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:47,260
is I do think that the space program did

765
00:40:55,710 --> 00:40:52,570
provide a number of a benefits to

766
00:41:00,510 --> 00:40:55,720
humanity in terms of things that were

767
00:41:03,090 --> 00:41:00,520
discovered during their you know their

768
00:41:05,730 --> 00:41:03,100
journeys and so forth and the kind of

769
00:41:09,390 --> 00:41:05,740
technology that it was necessary to

770
00:41:13,140 --> 00:41:09,400
develop but on the other hand the

771
00:41:18,450 --> 00:41:13,150
chances of any of us here I mean myself

772
00:41:23,180 --> 00:41:18,460
kate bill or you moving out physically

773
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:23,190
in the universe past let's say Mars is

774
00:41:28,470 --> 00:41:26,290
extremely dubious but a lot of

775
00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:28,480
philosophical good came out of it for

776
00:41:33,150 --> 00:41:30,730
Edgar Mitchell who's recently departed

777
00:41:36,780 --> 00:41:33,160
and now knows the answer as to what

778
00:41:39,420 --> 00:41:36,790
happens after you depart yes I was the

779
00:41:41,700 --> 00:41:39,430
biggest thrills of my life was to have

780
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:41,710
brunch with it good Mitchell yeah but

781
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:44,050
but then he developed noetic science yes

782
00:41:48,650 --> 00:41:46,690
he did interestingly most of the

783
00:41:52,290 --> 00:41:48,660
astronauts came back did go into

784
00:41:54,750 --> 00:41:52,300
philosophy art they were changed they

785
00:41:59,400 --> 00:41:54,760
would definitely change the experience

786
00:42:03,120 --> 00:41:59,410
so it's ok tow you saving up for uh for

787
00:42:08,599 --> 00:42:03,130
your ride in SpaceX rocket absolutely ok

788
00:42:13,650 --> 00:42:08,609
bad for the kid kiss the kiss goodbye to

789
00:42:15,720 --> 00:42:13,660
get back of our little but you know go

790
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:15,730
back to the point I really thought is

791
00:42:19,900 --> 00:42:17,690
very interesting sir on your

792
00:42:23,050 --> 00:42:19,910
when you were describing your lucid

793
00:42:25,390 --> 00:42:23,060
dreaming or your liminal state activity

794
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:25,400
state and you discovered all those

795
00:42:32,290 --> 00:42:27,770
sparkles I mean obviously that was an

796
00:42:34,930 --> 00:42:32,300
energy and energy is also something that

797
00:42:36,250 --> 00:42:34,940
everybody it's it's like life like

798
00:42:39,220 --> 00:42:36,260
everyone knows what you're talking about

799
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:39,230
no one really knows what it is it exerts

800
00:42:44,860 --> 00:42:41,930
force on other things but energy is

801
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:44,870
still to me a very mysterious thing but

802
00:42:50,590 --> 00:42:48,290
that aside even the human body is

803
00:42:52,750 --> 00:42:50,600
largely space I mean when you consider

804
00:42:54,940 --> 00:42:52,760
the distance between a nucleus electrons

805
00:42:58,450 --> 00:42:54,950
without getting into too much there's

806
00:43:01,240 --> 00:42:58,460
still tons of space inside the body and

807
00:43:03,940 --> 00:43:01,250
if you release that type of energy and

808
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:03,950
expanse that space I can see it becoming

809
00:43:09,630 --> 00:43:06,410
light and starting to levitate yeah yeah

810
00:43:12,580 --> 00:43:09,640
yeah that was really I bet you came I

811
00:43:15,460 --> 00:43:12,590
did you know of course you didn't have a

812
00:43:18,670 --> 00:43:15,470
video of yourself at the time but I've

813
00:43:21,430 --> 00:43:18,680
bet if you had you would be surprised

814
00:43:27,730 --> 00:43:21,440
that you rose up a little bit we've got

815
00:43:32,470 --> 00:43:27,740
to talk to Ross about this okay another

816
00:43:37,510 --> 00:43:32,480
thing here is that we how many times do

817
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:37,520
we feel light-hearted there's a line

818
00:43:41,980 --> 00:43:39,770
from Walt Whitman afoot and

819
00:43:46,420 --> 00:43:41,990
light-hearted I take to the open road

820
00:43:49,090 --> 00:43:46,430
help free the long space before me and

821
00:43:52,330 --> 00:43:49,100
then he says henceforth I ask not good

822
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:52,340
fortune I myself am good fortune well

823
00:43:56,710 --> 00:43:54,170
that's how I felt in that in that

824
00:43:59,710 --> 00:43:56,720
episode where my home my body was the

825
00:44:03,100 --> 00:43:59,720
universe all I had to do was just think

826
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:03,110
about my lip pinkie and suddenly I saw

827
00:44:12,270 --> 00:44:07,450
stars so to speak and that that you know

828
00:44:14,710 --> 00:44:12,280
is very important to wake up to our own

829
00:44:18,510 --> 00:44:14,720
the mystery of our own embodied

830
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:18,520
existence is part of the adventure and

831
00:44:24,100 --> 00:44:20,570
incidentally I agree with you guys about

832
00:44:26,140 --> 00:44:24,110
the value of some I mean of this

833
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:26,150
scientific purely you know space

834
00:44:31,420 --> 00:44:28,850
exploration I'm not putting it down but

835
00:44:34,150 --> 00:44:31,430
they but he just would like to see the

836
00:44:36,910 --> 00:44:34,160
the funds were so displayed up a little

837
00:44:39,370 --> 00:44:36,920
bit differently which yes I mean you

838
00:44:41,380 --> 00:44:39,380
know I mean obviously that's a necessary

839
00:44:43,930 --> 00:44:41,390
thing to do but then there are other

840
00:44:46,420 --> 00:44:43,940
necessary things to do too and the

841
00:44:48,700 --> 00:44:46,430
problem I think is that once you start

842
00:44:51,190 --> 00:44:48,710
talking about things like lucid dreaming

843
00:44:53,859 --> 00:44:51,200
it it doesn't have the validity of

844
00:44:56,500 --> 00:44:53,869
hardcore science which is quantitative

845
00:44:58,900 --> 00:44:56,510
and measurable and repeatable I think

846
00:45:00,519 --> 00:44:58,910
that's where all the paranormal things

847
00:45:03,789 --> 00:45:00,529
start to fall by the wayside because

848
00:45:05,980 --> 00:45:03,799
they're not repeatable they were I know

849
00:45:08,380 --> 00:45:05,990
they are to some extent but not to a

850
00:45:13,089 --> 00:45:08,390
reliable extent where you know you put

851
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:13,099
sodium chlorite together but you know

852
00:45:18,210 --> 00:45:16,250
you can't meditate and because even

853
00:45:23,980 --> 00:45:18,220
people like for Usha who do it and

854
00:45:27,309 --> 00:45:23,990
pretty consciously do it they can't rely

855
00:45:29,500 --> 00:45:27,319
on it happening all the time yes good I

856
00:45:32,289 --> 00:45:29,510
mean I can certainly take an aspirin and

857
00:45:34,059 --> 00:45:32,299
my headache goes away I I think people

858
00:45:36,700 --> 00:45:34,069
can meditate make their headaches go

859
00:45:39,010 --> 00:45:36,710
away but I can do it as reliable as

860
00:45:40,809 --> 00:45:39,020
taking that aspirin and that's and

861
00:45:43,089 --> 00:45:40,819
that's where the funding starts to fall

862
00:45:45,490 --> 00:45:43,099
by the wayside and unfortunately subtle

863
00:45:47,170 --> 00:45:45,500
I mean I agree with you I think there

864
00:45:50,730 --> 00:45:47,180
should be a lot more funding along those

865
00:45:54,990 --> 00:45:50,740
lines many of the most important things

866
00:45:57,309 --> 00:45:55,000
in life are not repeatable how many

867
00:45:59,769 --> 00:45:57,319
Shakespeare's do we have we'll never see

868
00:46:02,019 --> 00:45:59,779
another Shakespeare does that mean

869
00:46:03,700 --> 00:46:02,029
Shakespeare we should just cross him off

870
00:46:05,740 --> 00:46:03,710
he's not a not a scientifically

871
00:46:08,620 --> 00:46:05,750
reproducible phenomenon right not

872
00:46:10,510 --> 00:46:08,630
interesting that's absurd we can't say

873
00:46:12,940 --> 00:46:10,520
that I mean some of the most important

874
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:12,950
things the moment of falling in love no

875
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:15,010
moment like that in a man's life perhaps

876
00:46:21,220 --> 00:46:17,450
he's lucky happens a couple of times or

877
00:46:23,970 --> 00:46:21,230
a woman right there's magic there I mean

878
00:46:28,299 --> 00:46:23,980
like it seems to me is poorly

879
00:46:31,019 --> 00:46:28,309
unrepeatable right and but and but I do

880
00:46:34,049 --> 00:46:31,029
agree with you it's things repeatable

881
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:34,059
effects and services are more marketable

882
00:46:43,750 --> 00:46:38,690
and I grant that and I think that's one

883
00:46:45,190 --> 00:46:43,760
of the Edgar will Co Wilson said to that

884
00:46:48,370 --> 00:46:45,200
what he was trying to do

885
00:46:50,859 --> 00:46:48,380
his last book Concilium is to bring back

886
00:46:53,410 --> 00:46:50,869
philosophy into the field of science and

887
00:46:56,170 --> 00:46:53,420
get them married together again as they

888
00:46:58,780 --> 00:46:56,180
had been I think has gone over way too

889
00:47:04,180 --> 00:46:58,790
far into the heart the so-called hard

890
00:47:07,900 --> 00:47:04,190
sciences philosophy the sense of wonder

891
00:47:10,750 --> 00:47:07,910
and I do agree with the author Concilium

892
00:47:13,630 --> 00:47:10,760
sebat and the part of science that I'm

893
00:47:16,300 --> 00:47:13,640
so excited about nowadays is and in

894
00:47:21,190 --> 00:47:16,310
growing interest in animal consciousness

895
00:47:23,109 --> 00:47:21,200
and the scientists are finally waking up

896
00:47:26,349 --> 00:47:23,119
although ordinary people always knew

897
00:47:30,069 --> 00:47:26,359
that animals their pets for example are

898
00:47:35,079 --> 00:47:30,079
conscious but science itself is catching

899
00:47:38,380 --> 00:47:35,089
up to come sincere and I think that this

900
00:47:40,540 --> 00:47:38,390
is a one of the more exciting branches

901
00:47:44,859 --> 00:47:40,550
of science and one of the values of it

902
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:44,869
is to induce or awaken in ordinary human

903
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:47,930
beings a sense of wonder because when

904
00:47:52,930 --> 00:47:51,410
you start wondering about things you see

905
00:47:55,300 --> 00:47:52,940
them differently you don't necessarily

906
00:47:59,980 --> 00:47:55,310
see them as things that you necessarily

907
00:48:04,270 --> 00:47:59,990
want to exploit but things that have

908
00:48:06,609 --> 00:48:04,280
value in and for themselves much for

909
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:06,619
that the idea of combining science

910
00:48:13,660 --> 00:48:10,490
philosophy and wonder together again and

911
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:13,670
great idea I would just mention here in

912
00:48:22,900 --> 00:48:18,770
terms of the hard sciences a lot of the

913
00:48:27,089 --> 00:48:22,910
study that has been done on experimenter

914
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:27,099
bias and that having an intentional

915
00:48:45,270 --> 00:48:42,120
if you don't have someone who is I know

916
00:48:48,250 --> 00:48:45,280
expecting expecting positive results

917
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:48,260
enthusiastic and spontaneous which is

918
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:50,690
one of the key variables you know not

919
00:48:56,650 --> 00:48:53,450
going to get the same effect but that's

920
00:48:58,690 --> 00:48:56,660
true for all human behaviors all right I

921
00:49:02,050 --> 00:48:58,700
mean if you

922
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:02,060
are asking a we hear a kid and you're

923
00:49:08,020 --> 00:49:06,170
asking a favor from your dad gotta watch

924
00:49:09,910 --> 00:49:08,030
out for experimental in fact right make

925
00:49:12,940 --> 00:49:09,920
sure that he's in a good mood after he's

926
00:49:15,810 --> 00:49:12,950
had a nice meal and he's laughing and

927
00:49:18,460 --> 00:49:15,820
smiling and cracking jokes then hey Dad

928
00:49:20,829 --> 00:49:18,470
can you lend me 50 bucks I want to buy

929
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:20,839
something I mean you don't approach him

930
00:49:29,349 --> 00:49:26,450
when he's in a rage it's these are human

931
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:29,359
qualities and the human world is more

932
00:49:37,930 --> 00:49:32,930
subtle more fluid more flexible and more

933
00:49:39,910 --> 00:49:37,940
surprising than the inanimate world of

934
00:49:43,750 --> 00:49:39,920
pure physics and chemistry chemistry

935
00:49:46,089 --> 00:49:43,760
well even at the bottom bottom level of

936
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:46,099
quantum mechanics there are surprises

937
00:49:55,089 --> 00:49:50,050
and mysteries I you know getting back to

938
00:49:59,260 --> 00:49:55,099
the area of levitation and st. Joseph of

939
00:50:03,240 --> 00:49:59,270
Cupertino perhaps what I would like you

940
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:03,250
to do is maybe comment on other

941
00:50:12,569 --> 00:50:07,930
individuals in and outside of the

942
00:50:18,870 --> 00:50:12,579
Catholic Church arena that have

943
00:50:22,930 --> 00:50:18,880
exhibited interesting examples of

944
00:50:27,599 --> 00:50:22,940
levitation examples that you think might

945
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:27,609
be worthy of further looking into

946
00:50:35,170 --> 00:50:30,650
inspection if you will yeah well almost

947
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:35,180
all of the recorded cases of levitation

948
00:50:40,780 --> 00:50:38,930
and most of them are from the Catholic

949
00:50:43,180 --> 00:50:40,790
Church not because the Catholics have a

950
00:50:47,260 --> 00:50:43,190
monopoly on these things but because

951
00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:47,270
they keep records most of them are

952
00:50:50,980 --> 00:50:49,250
incredibly interesting and they all have

953
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:50,990
little differences but I will mention

954
00:50:58,839 --> 00:50:55,970
something about home DD home who was not

955
00:51:04,480 --> 00:50:58,849
a Catholic saint by no means but who

956
00:51:06,819 --> 00:51:04,490
also apparently levitated according to

957
00:51:10,830 --> 00:51:06,829
Sir William Crookes who studied him

958
00:51:20,340 --> 00:51:18,870
now I his levitations what they offer

959
00:51:23,340 --> 00:51:20,350
here's one difference I would say

960
00:51:25,110 --> 00:51:23,350
between the meditations of many media

961
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:25,120
I'm not the meditations the levitation

962
00:51:32,580 --> 00:51:31,090
sorry of mediums versus Saints this

963
00:51:39,830 --> 00:51:32,590
might be an interesting point to bring

964
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:39,840
out Guinea home as he got older and got

965
00:51:46,590 --> 00:51:44,890
sick sicker and trailer he lost his

966
00:51:49,650 --> 00:51:46,600
powers and this is true for most of the

967
00:51:51,780 --> 00:51:49,660
meetings they tend to lose their

968
00:51:53,790 --> 00:51:51,790
abilities as time went on they had they

969
00:51:57,750 --> 00:51:53,800
suffer from what's called the decline

970
00:51:59,760 --> 00:51:57,760
effect in parapsychologist talk about

971
00:52:02,370 --> 00:51:59,770
the decline effect so if you do it a

972
00:52:04,110 --> 00:52:02,380
psychic test you tend to do best in the

973
00:52:08,250 --> 00:52:04,120
beginning then it gets a little boring

974
00:52:10,260 --> 00:52:08,260
and you lose your abilities now this is

975
00:52:12,300 --> 00:52:10,270
quite different from the case of Joseph

976
00:52:16,590 --> 00:52:12,310
again I'm not trying to compare them

977
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:16,600
invidiously I'm just making a point the

978
00:52:23,460 --> 00:52:19,810
case of Joseph no even when it's sick

979
00:52:26,330 --> 00:52:23,470
and on his deathbed he levitated it and

980
00:52:29,750 --> 00:52:26,340
one theory was by the way that his

981
00:52:32,370 --> 00:52:29,760
levitations were the result of repressed

982
00:52:36,420 --> 00:52:32,380
sexual impulses and there may be some

983
00:52:38,340 --> 00:52:36,430
element of truth to that however when

984
00:52:40,860 --> 00:52:38,350
you're on your deathbed your sex drive

985
00:52:42,030 --> 00:52:40,870
is pretty far down I would say he's

986
00:52:46,530 --> 00:52:42,040
still livid

987
00:52:51,390 --> 00:52:46,540
so Joseph levitations and this seems to

988
00:52:54,570 --> 00:52:51,400
be true for many of the Saints including

989
00:52:58,640 --> 00:52:54,580
maybe the Yogi's or all the directions

990
00:53:03,450 --> 00:52:58,650
they are not as good they seem to work

991
00:53:05,820 --> 00:53:03,460
independently the physiology and the

992
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:05,830
health of the individual so that just

993
00:53:10,980 --> 00:53:08,770
that not a definite point but it's a

994
00:53:12,930 --> 00:53:10,990
possible thing to look at but now here's

995
00:53:17,220 --> 00:53:12,940
another comparison with another Catholic

996
00:53:19,770 --> 00:53:17,230
saint st. Teresa Teresa would would

997
00:53:22,710 --> 00:53:19,780
levitate get carried away ecstatic and

998
00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:22,720
levitate and like Joseph she found it

999
00:53:27,750 --> 00:53:24,730
very embarrassing because it called it

1000
00:53:31,230 --> 00:53:27,760
to her mystics don't want to be noticed

1001
00:53:34,740 --> 00:53:31,240
mediums do they want to perform they

1002
00:53:36,510 --> 00:53:34,750
want followings mystics don't want that

1003
00:53:40,460 --> 00:53:36,520
they want to stay by themselves now in

1004
00:53:42,570 --> 00:53:40,470
the case of st. Teresa she prayed that

1005
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:42,580
over and over again that these

1006
00:53:48,540 --> 00:53:45,450
manifestations ceased and they did

1007
00:53:53,430 --> 00:53:48,550
Joseph too prayed over and over again

1008
00:53:56,970 --> 00:53:53,440
and got his buddies to pay to pray with

1009
00:53:58,440 --> 00:53:56,980
him and for him it never worked again

1010
00:54:02,040 --> 00:53:58,450
what is this proof I don't know it

1011
00:54:04,140 --> 00:54:02,050
proves individual difference well you

1012
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:04,150
know that comes back to the whole idea

1013
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:08,410
of self consciousness in terms of having

1014
00:54:18,720 --> 00:54:12,970
an ego in the case of someone perhaps

1015
00:54:21,870 --> 00:54:18,730
like home or Hume and the lack of ego

1016
00:54:25,500 --> 00:54:21,880
that was present certainly from what I

1017
00:54:31,350 --> 00:54:25,510
read in your book about Joseph as there

1018
00:54:34,110 --> 00:54:31,360
are perhaps any Hindu or yogic people

1019
00:54:40,190 --> 00:54:34,120
you would like to mention or anybody in

1020
00:54:47,820 --> 00:54:43,200
with confidence it's hard for me to say

1021
00:54:50,250 --> 00:54:47,830
that there's a famous book called the

1022
00:54:54,890 --> 00:54:50,260
autobiography of the yoga of the yogi

1023
00:54:57,930 --> 00:54:54,900
Yogananda you must know yes yes he

1024
00:55:01,230 --> 00:54:57,940
himself did not claim to levitate but

1025
00:55:04,380 --> 00:55:01,240
one of his disciples told him a story

1026
00:55:06,690 --> 00:55:04,390
about his levitations but the organ and

1027
00:55:10,650 --> 00:55:06,700
I never witnessed it but he took this

1028
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:10,660
man on his on his word it's interesting

1029
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:13,330
that Yogananda explained the the

1030
00:55:21,510 --> 00:55:16,210
levitations as a result of pranayama the

1031
00:55:26,610 --> 00:55:21,520
breathing exercise so in fact Yoga seems

1032
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:26,620
to relate the so-called you know

1033
00:55:31,530 --> 00:55:29,410
phenomena extraordinary phenomena have a

1034
00:55:33,540 --> 00:55:31,540
lot to do with the control of breath the

1035
00:55:37,050 --> 00:55:33,550
life force and that makes a lot of sense

1036
00:55:38,970 --> 00:55:37,060
to me so perhaps the different

1037
00:55:42,470 --> 00:55:38,980
traditions

1038
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:42,480
have learned different things about this

1039
00:55:47,490 --> 00:55:45,010
phenomenon that we're describing but we

1040
00:55:50,730 --> 00:55:47,500
don't know enough about the other

1041
00:55:55,380 --> 00:55:50,740
traditions as far as really compelling

1042
00:55:59,700 --> 00:55:55,390
cases to be sure about what really is

1043
00:56:02,700 --> 00:55:59,710
going on but I know that there's a

1044
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:02,710
Tibetan yogi famous Tibetan yogi

1045
00:56:09,660 --> 00:56:07,210
Milarepa he writes about his levitations

1046
00:56:15,230 --> 00:56:09,670
that was back a while ago what do we

1047
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:15,240
know what time frame that was about

1048
00:56:23,250 --> 00:56:19,210
right and but there's a famous part

1049
00:56:25,050 --> 00:56:23,260
biography of him oh by him and it's

1050
00:56:28,859 --> 00:56:25,060
interesting because he says that he

1051
00:56:31,140 --> 00:56:28,869
started out and just having out-of-body

1052
00:56:33,599 --> 00:56:31,150
experiences and travelling all over the

1053
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:33,609
universe out of his body and seeing

1054
00:56:38,970 --> 00:56:35,650
things and beholding the wonders of the

1055
00:56:44,550 --> 00:56:38,980
cosmos and then gradually he learned the

1056
00:56:46,050 --> 00:56:44,560
ability to levitate his body and he

1057
00:56:49,140 --> 00:56:46,060
could be making this up there are no

1058
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:49,150
witnesses but I was impressed it sounded

1059
00:56:57,420 --> 00:56:51,970
it had an air of truthiness if I may use

1060
00:57:02,280 --> 00:56:57,430
that phrase to it he described himself

1061
00:57:04,770 --> 00:57:02,290
on one occasion as flying above a group

1062
00:57:07,140 --> 00:57:04,780
of people and they recognized them and

1063
00:57:10,260 --> 00:57:07,150
they got into a conversation and one

1064
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:10,270
person said oh what a bore the other the

1065
00:57:16,410 --> 00:57:12,010
other person said how interesting

1066
00:57:20,130 --> 00:57:16,420
there's a man who could fly and then

1067
00:57:22,260 --> 00:57:20,140
eventually he decided to avoid and I'm

1068
00:57:25,650 --> 00:57:22,270
just repeating the story because it is a

1069
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:25,660
story to avoid levitating in public

1070
00:57:30,210 --> 00:57:28,210
because people came after him and wanted

1071
00:57:30,950 --> 00:57:30,220
favors the same thing that happened to

1072
00:57:34,380 --> 00:57:30,960
Joseph

1073
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:34,390
so the reply to your question I'm afraid

1074
00:57:42,150 --> 00:57:38,050
is not very robust off the top of my

1075
00:57:45,180 --> 00:57:42,160
head but there are other cases other

1076
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:45,190
traditions a man I know in

1077
00:57:50,910 --> 00:57:47,290
Charlottesville Virginia came up to me

1078
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:50,920
and told me that he witnessed Edgar

1079
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:52,210
Cayce

1080
00:57:58,020 --> 00:57:54,730
when he was a boy because levy edgar

1081
00:58:03,750 --> 00:57:58,030
cayce pick took this young boy in under

1082
00:58:05,849 --> 00:58:03,760
his wing as it were and raised him the

1083
00:58:08,609 --> 00:58:05,859
gentleman that I'm speaking of now is

1084
00:58:12,839 --> 00:58:08,619
fairly elderly and yet does have a

1085
00:58:16,260 --> 00:58:12,849
reputation of having been having the

1086
00:58:19,799 --> 00:58:16,270
relationship with that UKC he claims to

1087
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:19,809
me he told me that he witnessed edgar

1088
00:58:27,359 --> 00:58:21,250
cayce levitate once

1089
00:58:36,030 --> 00:58:27,369
Wow also Carol Carol de la Heron had

1090
00:58:37,890 --> 00:58:36,040
seen yes never met her no I she told me

1091
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:37,900
that she wrote a beautiful account and I

1092
00:58:43,650 --> 00:58:40,930
have complete confidence in her heritage

1093
00:58:47,370 --> 00:58:43,660
she and another woman witnessed a

1094
00:58:49,140 --> 00:58:47,380
Spanish nun levitate in the 1990s the

1095
00:58:52,740 --> 00:58:49,150
other woman who was a Scandinavian

1096
00:58:56,789 --> 00:58:52,750
fainted on the spy she so shocked and

1097
00:58:59,160 --> 00:58:56,799
disrupted and I can understand that well

1098
00:59:01,770 --> 00:58:59,170
yeah I was saying one thing is

1099
00:59:05,010 --> 00:59:01,780
definitely clear these things occur

1100
00:59:08,130 --> 00:59:05,020
no I knows why and nobody is going to

1101
00:59:10,980 --> 00:59:08,140
fund that research which is a shame yes

1102
00:59:14,789 --> 00:59:10,990
but how would you even begin to I mean

1103
00:59:16,980 --> 00:59:14,799
oh yeah you know sometimes like a let's

1104
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:16,990
say if she just did it from

1105
00:59:20,250 --> 00:59:18,970
physiological standpoint I mean yeah

1106
00:59:22,339 --> 00:59:20,260
sure you could just stick some

1107
00:59:24,780 --> 00:59:22,349
electrodes in and out and measure

1108
00:59:27,750 --> 00:59:24,790
temperature pressure and all that but

1109
00:59:29,849 --> 00:59:27,760
that I think is sort of like taking it

1110
00:59:31,829 --> 00:59:29,859
away from the subject isn't it like

1111
00:59:35,660 --> 00:59:31,839
you're bringing it too much out of the

1112
00:59:38,039 --> 00:59:35,670
meditation and into the arches yeah yeah

1113
00:59:40,890 --> 00:59:38,049
you you you bring up some interesting

1114
00:59:45,690 --> 00:59:40,900
questions thank you well one thing

1115
00:59:48,450 --> 00:59:45,700
before we go I wanted to say something

1116
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:48,460
to the skeptics in the audience which

1117
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:50,770
I'm sure you know the many people's will

1118
00:59:55,799 --> 00:59:52,930
hear this there will be a number of

1119
00:59:56,339 --> 00:59:55,809
skeptics because it's it's an incredible

1120
00:59:58,049 --> 00:59:56,349
thing

1121
01:00:00,420 --> 00:59:58,059
you know in and on some level just to

1122
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:00,430
contemplate it oh it's just outside of

1123
01:00:05,580 --> 01:00:03,970
the year exactly yes but what I would

1124
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:05,590
say to them

1125
01:00:13,950 --> 01:00:09,250
is that just because a such a thing can

1126
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:13,960
be done through a trick it doesn't mean

1127
01:00:24,870 --> 01:00:19,770
it was done through a trick and and the

1128
01:00:29,070 --> 01:00:24,880
magician duo's what Penn & Teller you

1129
01:00:31,380 --> 01:00:29,080
know they try to make everything into

1130
01:00:34,980 --> 01:00:31,390
you know say how everything is flawed

1131
01:00:43,470 --> 01:00:34,990
that we talk about and how it's all ruse

1132
01:00:45,210 --> 01:00:43,480
by some clever magicians but I but Penn

1133
01:00:48,390 --> 01:00:45,220
& Teller is known to most people and I

1134
01:00:51,150 --> 01:00:48,400
enjoyed their shows etc however just

1135
01:00:55,050 --> 01:00:51,160
because something can be done by a trick

1136
01:00:58,680 --> 01:00:55,060
doesn't mean it was done by a trick so

1137
01:01:02,670 --> 01:00:58,690
before we say goodbye to you we would

1138
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:02,680
like you to mention your website your

1139
01:01:08,190 --> 01:01:05,770
books your what what's coming up next

1140
01:01:14,580 --> 01:01:08,200
for you all of that good stuff Michael

1141
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:14,590
what do you say the virginia festival of

1142
01:01:25,260 --> 01:01:16,450
the book where i'm going to be giving a

1143
01:01:29,850 --> 01:01:25,270
presentation and but yeah i and there's

1144
01:01:36,090 --> 01:01:29,860
going to be later on in the spring at

1145
01:01:38,910 --> 01:01:36,100
Esalen we a conference dedicated to well

1146
01:01:41,100 --> 01:01:38,920
the title of it is super humanity

1147
01:01:44,340 --> 01:01:41,110
emerging or something like that the

1148
01:01:47,580 --> 01:01:44,350
title of it and Michael Murphy wrote a

1149
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:47,590
wonderful book called the future of the

1150
01:01:55,950 --> 01:01:51,250
body has invited me and I'll have a

1151
01:01:58,920 --> 01:01:55,960
whole opportunity to present my findings

1152
01:02:04,230 --> 01:01:58,930
on the levitation and there will be many

1153
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:04,240
other scholars and scientists and we're

1154
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:06,370
all going to be discussing some of these

1155
01:02:13,050 --> 01:02:09,130
far our potentialities of human

1156
01:02:16,470 --> 01:02:13,060
development that's wonderful like the

1157
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:16,480
place to be yeah it'll be great and once

1158
01:02:18,900 --> 01:02:18,370
more I'll mention the name of my book

1159
01:02:22,770 --> 01:02:18,910
the man

1160
01:02:27,029 --> 01:02:22,780
who could fly st. Joseph Cupertino and

1161
01:02:30,270 --> 01:02:27,039
the mystery of levitation and Amazon has

1162
01:02:33,779 --> 01:02:30,280
it you can get it on Amazon but and I'd

1163
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:33,789
also enjoy hearing for many of you if

1164
01:02:40,650 --> 01:02:36,130
you want to get to talk to me or to

1165
01:02:42,420 --> 01:02:40,660
rather to email me at my website which

1166
01:02:48,569 --> 01:02:42,430
is consciousness

1167
01:02:50,700 --> 01:02:48,579
- unbound dark net okay well I'm sure

1168
01:02:52,190 --> 01:02:50,710
all the dates for your upcoming events

1169
01:02:59,630 --> 01:02:52,200
will be there as well

1170
01:03:03,329 --> 01:02:59,640
yeah okay well thank you very very much

1171
01:03:10,859 --> 01:03:03,339
Michael Chris oh yes what dr. Michael

1172
01:03:13,370 --> 01:03:10,869
Grasso yes okay last - what Kate that

1173
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:13,380
was an amazing wonderful and interesting

1174
01:03:19,710 --> 01:03:15,730
interview don't you think uplifting

1175
01:03:25,140 --> 01:03:19,720
uplifting yes indeed thing would be the

1176
01:03:27,980 --> 01:03:25,150
word let us thank our audio engineer mr.

1177
01:03:31,230 --> 01:03:27,990
bill Moretti's for his wonderful

1178
01:03:34,710 --> 01:03:31,240
contribution and work to this and if if

1179
01:03:36,539 --> 01:03:34,720
our admiration for him would manifest on

1180
01:03:39,359 --> 01:03:36,549
the physical level he would be

1181
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:39,369
levitating out of his chair right now I

1182
01:03:50,779 --> 01:03:47,650
also want to mention but I also wanted

1183
01:03:52,890 --> 01:03:50,789
to mention that one of our past guests

1184
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:52,900
mr. Greg Bishop

1185
01:03:58,650 --> 01:03:55,930
is coming out with a new book within

1186
01:04:01,109 --> 01:03:58,660
days I've been in contact with him and

1187
01:04:05,490 --> 01:04:01,119
said that we would give his book a

1188
01:04:08,069 --> 01:04:05,500
little plug and we will but we want to

1189
01:04:10,289 --> 01:04:08,079
let you know that it will probably the

1190
01:04:13,620 --> 01:04:10,299
plug will probably be at the next show

1191
01:04:17,039 --> 01:04:13,630
because it's just on the verge of being

1192
01:04:19,349 --> 01:04:17,049
available on the Internet to buy so

1193
01:04:23,609 --> 01:04:19,359
hopefully next time we will do that I

1194
01:04:26,609 --> 01:04:23,619
would also like to ask people to write

1195
01:04:31,650 --> 01:04:26,619
in with their experiences especially if

1196
01:04:35,069 --> 01:04:31,660
they would enjoy having a moment of

1197
01:04:38,809 --> 01:04:35,079
15 minutes of fame so to speak and and

1198
01:04:41,910 --> 01:04:38,819
speak a little bit on our podcast and or

1199
01:04:46,349 --> 01:04:41,920
mail it in and we'll speak for you if

1200
01:04:48,569 --> 01:04:46,359
you would prefer what do you say okay I

1201
01:04:51,690 --> 01:04:48,579
think you have any other words of wisdom

1202
01:04:55,109 --> 01:04:51,700
no I think that's it I really was quite

1203
01:04:59,579 --> 01:04:55,119
impressed I sort of started as a skeptic

1204
01:05:02,970 --> 01:04:59,589
to be perfectly honest but yeah that was

1205
01:05:07,230 --> 01:05:02,980
very impressive a very interesting very

1206
01:05:10,049 --> 01:05:07,240
well-spoken gentleman yes I could could

1207
01:05:13,740 --> 01:05:10,059
enunciate my thoughts as well and as

1208
01:05:16,049 --> 01:05:13,750
readily as he does yeah but and it does

1209
01:05:18,180 --> 01:05:16,059
make you want you know like you go

1210
01:05:20,130 --> 01:05:18,190
through life and everything's every day

1211
01:05:22,500 --> 01:05:20,140
and then you get hit with something like

1212
01:05:26,789 --> 01:05:22,510
this you go well these this actually did

1213
01:05:28,710 --> 01:05:26,799
happen and nobody knows why and maybe we

1214
01:05:31,620 --> 01:05:28,720
should care a little bit more yeah

1215
01:05:34,829 --> 01:05:31,630
absolutely and it does fit in with our

1216
01:05:36,900 --> 01:05:34,839
last guest who was O'Brien heard of

1217
01:05:40,319 --> 01:05:36,910
dream studies yeah so it's sort of like

1218
01:05:42,359 --> 01:05:40,329
fits seamlessly into that spectrum lucid

1219
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:42,369
dreaming as well as other stuff and

1220
01:05:48,870 --> 01:05:47,170
out-of-body experiences and yep okay I

1221
01:05:53,789 --> 01:05:48,880
guess that sort of wraps it up is that

1222
01:05:57,329 --> 01:05:53,799
okay bye for me here for Russia and Kate